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GTD 'cult'

so a friend of mine sent me this message. I am a big fan of GTD and find it very useful. I'm just puttin' this out there.

[INDENT]
I was excited to sit down to read "Getting Things Done" today. It's a great gift. I was so excited that I even read the acknowledgments, to be complete about the whole thing. At the end of the acknowledgments I noticed that David Allen thanks someone named "J-R" for being his "spiritual coach."

Uh-oh. "J-R" seemed like it might stand for John-Roger -- the controversial cult leader and spiritual guru. And it does.

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/msia.html

David Allen, his wife, and many of his employees are ministers in the MSIA (Movement of Spritual Inner Awareness), John-Roger's church:

http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=65 http://www.davidco.com/coaches_corner/Ana_Maria_Gonz%E1lez/article14.html (employee quoting John-Roger)

Anti-cult websites accuse GTD of being part of a program to recruit people into MSIA. Their view seems paranoid to me, but you can read it for yourself:

http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=2193 http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=15025&sid=e3195755a2185f9b4710580921d3f527

Now, I'm not saying that Getting Things Done isn't a good book about priorities and organization. David Allen may have very good advice about that stuff. But I am saying don't go to a David Allen seminar, get mixed up with the David Allen Company, or get too involved with the hard-core GTD crowd -- at least not without taking some anti-brainwashing measures. Seriously. This John-Roger character and his followers are not a joke.

I learned about John-Roger a long time ago, as it happens, because in high school I read a self-help book called "Life 101" that he "co-wrote" with Peter McWilliams, the poet and anti-drug-war activist. In 1994, not long after I read "Life 101," McWilliams wrote an expose called "Life 102: What to Do When Your Guru Sues You." McWilliams left MSIA in 1994 after 15 years of being brainwashed. It turned out that John-Roger manipulated him into giving him co-authorship in return for keeping McWilliams alive. You see, John-Roger had the power to keep McWilliams alive because -- and this will surprise you -- John-Roger claims to be the incarnation of God on earth.

John-Roger has also made headlines in connection with Arianna Huffington -- who admits to being a close friend and who has been accused (though she's never admitted it) of being an MSIA minister as well.

[/INDENT]

moises's picture

Reply to FreeWilly Part I

FreeWilly;6060 wrote:
I completely agree that what is needed is critical thinking, vigorously applied. But that is not being done, as far as I can see. GTD is simply based on David Allen's anecdotes, and no scientific testing by 3rd parties. Zero. Nadda.

OK let's examine the arguments that FreeWilly presents. Argument number one: GTD has not been subject to any scientific testing, therefore I should not use the GTD method.

To the best of my knowledge FreeWilly is correct that GTD has not been subject to any scientific testing. But I do not believe that his conclusion follows.

Here is FreeWilly?s argument:

1. If a method has been scientifically verified I should use it and if a method has not been scientifically verified I should not use it.
2. GTD is a method that has not been scientifically verified.
3. Therefore I should not use the GTD method.

This argument is false because the premise in statement 1 is false. I shampoo my hair using methods that have not been scientifically verified. I let the coach of my son?s Little League team coach my son in baseball using methods that have not been scientifically verified.

Putting aside for the moment that science does not definitively verify anything--all claims are subject to revision ("more studies are needed")--the fact is that we do an almost infinite number of things. And we use strategies to do these things. And in most cases these strategies have not been scientifically tested.

I believe that if someone lived her life according to statement 1, that person would quickly be dead. Don't get me wrong. I think science is wonderful. I think religions are wrong-headed. But we are a very long way from being able to have science tell us the best way to live our lives.

A case in point is nutrition. The scientific results are in chaotic disarray. Low-fat, high-fat, low-carb, high-carb. The medical sciences just do not have any consensus yet. And the social and behavioral sciences are in greater disarray than the medical sciences. So I am not holding my breath on getting a definitive answer from behavioral or cognitive science on GTD.

That said, if there were strong evidence that GTD were harmful, I would like to see it. Right now, I have David Allen speculating that GTD is very good for me and FreeWilly speculating that GTD is possibly very harmful for me.

I look at the evidence. People who do GTD have survived the experience and many appear to be thriving. I scour the internet for evidence of people who have been irrevocably damaged by GTD. I find none. The worst that I find is that some people don't like GTD and give it up.

I take the leap and try GTD myself. It has been a real boon. It has been almost everything David Allen said it would be. It has increased my happiness and increased my sense of control.

FreeWilly;6060 wrote:
None of the basic ideas that David Allen is promoting are even his. They are taken from other people and places. (but of course David Allen provides no references or footnotes).

Argument number two: David Allen stole all the ideas in GTD.

Well, I know he didn't invent the 43 folders tickler file idea. I know that he didn't invent using a calendar. I know that he didn't invent asking yourself what you want and what are the action steps required to get what you want. But, as far as I know, David never claimed to have invented/discovered these things. What he did create was the flow diagram of GTD. Like most advances, this one is built upon the work of his predecessors. Newton used the data of previous astronomers, for example.

But let's assume that I am wrong and the flow diagram of GTD is not David's creation. Is that a reason for me not to use it?

Remember what the thrust of FreeWilly's argument is: we should not use GTD because it may have deleterious effects.

The fact that David Allen might have stolen the GTD idea is not a reason to not practice GTD. It might be a reason to traduce David Allen. But it is not a reason to fear the practice of GTD.

FreeWilly;6060 wrote:

Having some basic tools of personal organization is one thing, but when someone creates this massive SYSTEM, which claims to be able to give you "stress-free productivity", and does not provide any proof, that is something else. Then when you pile LGAT seminars on top, and expensive "coaching" and hidden religious cults lead by a psychopath named J-R...

Argument Two said that there is nothing new in GTD. So, what is there to fear in it? Now we find that GTD is a "massive SYSTEM." Well, in this world people get credit for creating something new by taking disconnected, apparently random ideas and systematizing them. So, this argument appears to conflict with Argument Two.

Argument Three: GTD is a massive SYSTEM and should be avoided because of that.

Let's see if we can make a real argument out of this:

1. All massive systems should be considered deleterious and should be avoided.
2. GTD is a massive system.
3. Therefore, GTD should be considered deleterious and should be avoided.

Can any sane person believe the claim 1 above? Modern medicine is a massive system. Is that a good reason to avoid it? Calculus is a massive system. Should we tell our engineers to stop using it? Christian theology is a massive system. I don't believe in it but I wouldn't tell others that a good reason to stop believing in Christian theology is that it is a massive system.

FreeWilly also complains about the expensive coaching and seminars.

I think that mdl's critique of this point is about right. David Allen did the exact opposite of what a cult organizer should do: he put almost all of his ideas out there for free.

You can find out almost everything in the GTD book, which is cheap. Then David Allen created an internet forum. I learned tons from that forum. And, until the last few months, what struck me most about the forum was that it was completely laissez-faire. The credo of that forum was, "anything goes." I don't recall any posts being deleted. I do recall members begging the moderators to get rid of some patently commercial posts. It didn't seem, however, as if there were any moderators paying attention.

All that changed a few months ago after someone(s) began a systematic plan of character assassination directed at David Allen on his forum. Now the forum is moderated. The moderators are still quite lax, compared to many boards I have seen, but some posts have been deleted.

My judgment is that if David Allen wanted to recruit to his cult he would have behaved quite differently. He would have spoon-fed little bits of information to his followers. He would have forced them to spend more and more to go deeper and deeper into the system. There would be lots of levels and he would tell them that they can only really do GTD the right way if they spend $50,000 to enter the inner circle.

But he didn't. He lets us see what GTD is for almost nothing. And he lets people who take the seminar or take the personal coaching tell us what went on in those sessions.

I keep looking for the conspiracy and I don't find it.

 
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